Well, I have this to say about diamonds, which is that there is one way to buy them and get a reasonable deal.

You can buy them direct from the cutters in Europe (Amsterdam and Antwerp in particular).

When you go to Amsterdam, there are whole city blocks occupied by the diamond facilities. I was at Gassan several weeks ago (they have a monstrous showroom, and set loose stones on the spot) and prices were roughly 25% less than they would be stateside, even accounting for the VAT (which you get back as a foreigner leaving the country) and the exchange rate (which could be better).

They have cases and cases full of loose diamonds. You tell the salesperson what you are looking for and he trots off and returns with 5 or so stones at a time, and presents you with the loupe and microscope.

I looked at a 1.21 F VVS2, ideal cut round, I'd guess an HCA score around 1.6. A similar stone is currently listed on James Allen for $14,210. The stone in Amsterdam, even given the conversion, would have been about $9500. Of course it was not certified yet, since it had not come stateside, but that was their in-house gemologist's temporary cert, and that's how they sell diamonds to the American distributors, so.

The pricing really depends on how many middlemen you cut out.

Fundamentally, though, diamonds are not rare. If DeBeers were to release their held inventory of rough and cut diamonds onto the diamond market, prices would plummet to the level of lab-created gemstones as supply would be effectively infinite. Rare colors would still be rare, but white, round, brilliant cut diamonds would be a completely saturated market.

The whole desire and rarity of diamonds is a manufactured concept. The ability to buy diamonds outside of the control of DeBeers as mines were discovered in Canada, Australia, etc has lowered prices and lowered markups, as has the advent of internet buying, digital photography, and all the other tools we use that enable us to buy diamonds online.

Diamonds can't be an investment, because there is no conceivable way for them to appreciate in value unless diamonds ceased to be sold, which of course wouldn't happen as they're so common. However, their value is solely manufactured, as proven by the fact that they have basically zero value when sold outside of a retail environment.

That is very interesting. I would love the opportunity to visit Amsterdam and see some of these diamond venues. Thanks for posting.

Very interesting, thank you for posting!!!

Guess I will need to travel to Amsterdam to buy a diamond!

Now I will be in Africa next fall, wonder how the pricing is there.

The major cutteries also give excellent tours. Gassan gives a lovely tour and so does Coster, but the shopping experience at Gassan is really quite worth doing.

No need to speak Dutch or German, either, the salespeople will speak flawless English.

Your stone will be set in any of their thousands of settings while you wait, it's sort of a live version of the "build your own ring" phenomenon. You get coffee and biscuits while you wait in their absolutely lovely customer's lounge.

Also, their proprietary cut, the Gassan 121, is really a sight to behold. We ended up buying one of those. Each cutting house will have their own cut (Coster's is the Royal 201, also quite spectacular) that you won't find stateside so if you have the funds and are looking for a unique piece, the diamond district in Amsterdam is truly the place to go.

Chebella, I don't have too much experience with Africa, but I do know that most rough is shipped out for cutting to the Netherlands and other places in Europe, as well as some Asian nations, so your success at finding cut diamonds there may not be as good.

wow that sounds like such an amazing experience...maybe something to do for an anniversary vaca/upgrade or something

Africa has gotten a lot better in recent years.. As new laws come in to place more and more cutting is being done in Africa in an effort to get the miners closer to the end customer and keep more of the money spent on diamonds in Africa..

Thanks Steve. They way I look at it, I will be there a month, so would not hurt to look around a little!

LOL, Epstein has been saying that the diamond market was finished since back in the late 1970s or early 1980's. He really hates the diamond market. Since then the market has gone up and down but more up than down and thus it has always been and thus it will always be...

Wink

Sorry to bust your bubble, but good luck with the cert from the seller. Seen too many who have been there and done that. If you can not grade the diamond yourself, well then you are fair game.

Prices are more in Amsterdam than in Antwerp as Antwerp is where the majority of the diamonds you will buy in Amsterdam are cut. Still, you must know someone, have an introduction, and know what you are doing or you will pay as much or more than you will pay in the states. (Perhaps less than US retail, but as you correctly point out, retail is facing tremendous competition from web vendors today.)

I have been in diamond buying offices and watched people pay twenty to thirty percent more than I was paying from the same parcels I had looked at earlier. Getting in the office does NOT mean you are getting the best deal, and I am sure that there are those who got better deals than I did, even though I came with introductions and have good rapport with my vendors.

James Allen is the retail face of a major European diamond manufacturer and with a certed stone I sincerely doubt that you would have been paying nearly 5 grand less than he sells the stone for as he works on VERY tight margins. If the F was a G and the VVS2 was a VS1, entirely possible once the stone was certed by either GIA or AGS, then you paid about right, but if it was an H or a VS2 then you overpaid.

I long ago quit buying stones from dealers who did their own grading as I never found one, not ONE, who was not over inflating the grade of his stones by at least one grade and often two. The only time I will buy unpapered stones is when I can inspect them and grade them myself prior to having them shipped. Then I can occasionally find a prize in a parcel.

Also your comments about DeBeers stockpile of gems is many years out of date. They liquidated a great bit of their inventory many years ago and currently hold an inventory of months rather than years worth of diamonds.

There have been no significant finds for many years now, and it takes five to ten years to bring a mine from discovery to meaningful production. Add the declining production from today's mines to the increased demand from the Chinese and Indian markets and you have a tremendous squeeze in availability that is driving the world price of diamonds up at the same time our economy here in the States is trying to drag the pricing down. Currently rough costs more to buy and produce than the finished can be sold for here in the States, but the Chinese and Indian markets are happy to get the diamonds that we will not.

I make my living buying and selling gems, and I wish it was as easy to go to Antwerpen and buy diamonds cheap and then sell them dear as you make out. I would live there half the year if it were so.

Wink

Ah, well Wink, I have no intention of selling the diamond so no real plan to buy low and sell dear. Simply no desire to pay markup here to James Allen since, as you point out, they are the front for a European diamond manufacturer.

Since I was there anyway, and looking for an 80th birthday gift for my grandmother, it made sense to purchase it there. After all, I saved quite a bit by not having to pay the 19% VAT on luxury goods (only had to pay 4% duty on the American side).

I haven't had the stone graded yet because I'm lazy, but it will go out to be graded and I guess we'll see. Even if it comes out a grade lower, then my price was fair for a lower graded stone, instead of excellent for a higher graded one. That was the gamble I took, but I wasn't comfortable buying a diamond online and this way I could see what I was buying and know I liked it.

For what it's worth, my appraiser, who is obviously a gemologist, agreed with the color and clarity information I was given, though obviously it will need to be certified to be sure.

I'm sure being a dealer you can get better deals. However we the retail paying public can't, even with the online model that exists today. I certainly wasn't going to pay $14,000+ for a stone, so if I feel I got a fair deal, then so be it.