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#710421 - 02/07/12 09:37 AM Re: Do we have any dog trainers here? I need some help. [Re: e.taylor]
btrflai Offline
Connoisseur

Registered: 10/18/11
Posts: 1218
Loc: Central Coast of California - ...
And for the record, I re-home animals every day. I'm a foster. As I said, it's very difficult but it can be done with time. Read threads more carefully before you throw accusations around.

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#710422 - 02/07/12 09:38 AM Re: Do we have any dog trainers here? I need some help. [Re: e.taylor]
morning glory Offline
Connoisseur

Registered: 05/05/11
Posts: 2033
Behavior issues are/can be qualified as special needs as well. To equate children to dogs is inappropriate, especially in this case, IMO.


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#710423 - 02/07/12 09:39 AM Re: Do we have any dog trainers here? I need some help. [Re: e.taylor]
btrflai Offline
Connoisseur

Registered: 10/18/11
Posts: 1218
Loc: Central Coast of California - ...
For those of us that care for our pets in a certain way, they ARE our children! Thank you for your thoughts. They are entertaining for me this morning smile

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#710427 - 02/07/12 09:54 AM Re: Do we have any dog trainers here? I need some help. [Re: btrflai]
morning glory Offline
Connoisseur

Registered: 05/05/11
Posts: 2033
Originally Posted By: btrflai
For those of us that care for our pets in a certain way, they ARE our children! Thank you for your thoughts. They are entertaining for me this morning smile

That's the sort of thinking that made my parents keep an aggressive dog even after it bit me in face. As a child I wasn't all that thrilled that my parents thought of their dogs as their children. I would have much preferred they prioritized my safety and security. But it all worked out...the scar on my face is not that noticeable. wink

I apologize for being a bit snippy. I just see the possibility and justifiability of options that you don't and I don't think it's fair to put on etaylor that it is outright wrong if she has to come to that end...which will no doubt be very difficult for her.
Maybe you have some resource recommendations to pass on to etaylor?



Edited by morning glory (02/07/12 09:59 AM)

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#710431 - 02/07/12 09:57 AM Re: Do we have any dog trainers here? I need some help. [Re: e.taylor]
btrflai Offline
Connoisseur

Registered: 10/18/11
Posts: 1218
Loc: Central Coast of California - ...
I'm certainly very sorry that you had to experience something as traumatic as you did. That happened to my Mother as a child and she has a fear of dogs, which I can certainly understand. I absolutely do not want someones child at risk. I had a best friend that chose to keep her dog after it bit her child in the face. I don't know how she did that because I would have re-homed the dog had I been in that situation. Especially when there was a rescue facility that was willing to take her dog in.

We all have to make the best decisions for our families.

I will surely work on finding some great recommendation resources that might help e.taylor. I might even be able to find someone local to her smile

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#710516 - 02/07/12 11:56 AM Re: Do we have any dog trainers here? I need some help. [Re: btrflai]
e.taylor Offline
The Black Orlov

Registered: 03/15/09
Posts: 4190
Hi there. Thank you all for replying.

My guy got out of surgery 20 minutes ago and did really well. I'm more than thrilled about that. He wasn't at high risk, but I'm glad nevertheless.

I spoke to 2 behaviorists today that said they didn't want to take my money because even with the details over the phone they didn't feel the situation could be rectified to the point where everyone was living comfortably. One said with no medical issues behind it (and she has been assessed) that the problem was likely not behavioral, but rather tempermental.

The third one I spoke with said that rehabilitation WAS possible. He said that she would need to be leashed 24/7 and not allowed to play outside with the kids. It will be time intensive and financially significant but if I was going to really dig in and try and keep her he would be willing to help.

I really liked him. He said he didn't feel that she was an aggressive dog, but rather that she communicates inappropriately and while she WANTS a companion, she doesn't know what to do with one. That seems 100% right to me.

These dogs are generally very docile. This is a huge suprise and while a variation of normal as far as dogs go, on the far end of the spectrum and not commonly seen. We are hurting a lot right now, and so is she. She's really sad and knows something is wrong. I can't get her to eat, she won't get off her bed and she's just devastated. I need a good resolution here.

So that's where we are right now.


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#710517 - 02/07/12 12:04 PM Re: Do we have any dog trainers here? I need some help. [Re: e.taylor]
morning glory Offline
Connoisseur

Registered: 05/05/11
Posts: 2033
I'm glad your dog did OK with surgery.

Quote:
We are hurting a lot right now, and so is she. She's really sad and knows something is wrong. I can't get her to eat, she won't get off her bed and she's just devastated.

I was going to say earlier that she probably isn't very happy in her current aggressive state of mind. I do hope you can get her some help.


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#710519 - 02/07/12 12:08 PM Re: Do we have any dog trainers here? I need some help. [Re: morning glory]
e.taylor Offline
The Black Orlov

Registered: 03/15/09
Posts: 4190
morning glory, you are right. I don't think anyone is living to their fullest potential in this situation. She's not happy if she's having to assert herself all the time, the kids aren't thrilled that she's unpredictable and the other pup isn't at all happy that he's so beaten on. This situation needs to be rectified for everyone involved.


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#710532 - 02/07/12 12:51 PM Re: Do we have any dog trainers here? I need some help. [Re: e.taylor]
jcent Offline
BTD Crown Jewel

Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 12058
Loc: Canada
What a crappy situation E. frown That is so tough to know what to do. Our puppies are our babies, just our our DD and #2, so I would be devastated to have to rehome one, and would never put one down; and would probably be willing to pay whatever I could afford to "make it work". When you said that you had to muzzle her most of the time, I felt so sad for her. I understand completely, that you have to keep your kids and other dog safe, but I hope this can be resolved so that the "agressive" dog is also happy with a good quality of life. I use "agressive" in quotes because I am not sure that is the case with her. You know them all best wink

Our rescue, Georgia, has been called "aggresive" by some, but really she is just scared...of everyone other than me and DH. We worked with her a lot with different trainers, and I loved all of our trainers smile The right "fit" makes all the difference. I still do not trust Georgia 100% with other dogs- other than ours, and she can be snappy when she is tired. I know she hates little dogs now, so we keep her away from them. But, she gives us all the ques as to when she needs some time to be left alone, and just sleep or rest or whatever she wants. It was us that wasn't paying attention to her subtlties initially. Not saying that is happening with you, but that is what we had to learn.

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#710551 - 02/07/12 02:17 PM Re: Do we have any dog trainers here? I need some help. [Re: e.taylor]
Hoyden Offline
Ashaholic

Registered: 10/26/11
Posts: 215
Loc: Alameda, CA
e.taylor - if you PM me the name of the third behaviorist, I'll run him by my two friends who are greyhound people and the other dog people I know in CT and make sure he's okay & reputable.

I am glad your guy came out of surgery okay. It's always scary when our fury babies have to undergo surgery.


Now I am going to justify my response in detail because quite frankly I am simply appalled at the cat fight that ended up on this thread, which was clearly a plea for help and guidance.


Contrary to what many think, Greyhounds are NOT meant to be a docile tempered dog when working or hunting. Remember these dogs were bred and kept by nobility to hunt in packs since prior to Ancient Rome. In every pack of dogs, you will have one alpha. An alpha will keep the rest of the pack in order with displays of aggression.

I am sure that you have seen greyhounds race and have noted that they wear muzzles. At any lure coursing or gathering of greyhound owners, you will note that some if not all dogs are wearing basket muzzles.

There is a reason for this, when a greyhound is "on" or in drive mode, they will bite & nip to gain an advantage over the other dogs.

Could this be the behavior e.taylor's girl is displaying? Yes. It very well could be. I've seen this in racing dogs from certain breeders. They have some nice old European blood in those lines and that hasn't been polluted by the assine AKC and have been out-crossed nicely.

THAT BEING SAID - it is the human aggression that I find deeply disturbing. Chapter 15 of "The Master of Game" by Edward of Norwich, Duke of Norwich, a translation of “Livre de Chasse” one of the most famous of the hunting treatises of the Middle Ages, written between 1387 and 1388 by Gaston Phoebus, Count de Foix, states;

"He should be courteous and not too fierce, following well his master and doing whatever he command him. He shall be good and kindly and clean, glad and joyful and playful, well willing and goodly to all manner of folks save to the wild beasts to whom he should be fierce, spiteful and eager."


e.taylor's girls canine aggression against her boy puppy is normal, as I have demonstrated. The human aggression is not.


Clearly there is something going on with e.taylor's girl. The human aggression bothers me deeply. It could be medical, it could be temperament, it could be a lot of things, but I am not in CT anymore or I would personally gather my greyhound knowledgeable friends and bring them to her to evaluate her girl at my expense.

Hopefully, the behaviorist can discover and resolve the issues her girl is having once a full medical work up is done on the dog to rule out any medical causes for the aggression.

Gods forbid this dog bite and seriously injure one of e.taylor's children. Even worse is if her girl bites a child or someone else. There could be some serious legal repercussions as e.taylor knew that her girl dog had the potential to hurt a human. It could be argued in court that she did not take enough precautions to ensure that her dog did not bite someone.

Some dogs are mentally, physically and/or temperamentally unsound and they are miserable. Constantly fearful, in pain, on guard or displaying behaviors that are extreme and result in human aggression. There are times when you have to realize that you can not help that dog and the best, most kindest thing that you can do is put that dog to sleep and put it out of it's misery. It sucks. It breaks your heart. But in the end, it is what is best for the dog.

I have worked with human aggressive dogs extensively. Many times I have found solutions to been able to help the dog & its family or assist with placing the dog in a home that can deal with the dog's issues. Other times I have to reluctantly recommend that the dog be euthanized. I don't make that suggestion or recommendation lightly. Anytime I have personally evaluated a dog and have had to recommend that the dog be euthanized, I make it known that I will go with them to the vet when it is time or I will take the dog myself and I will stay with that dog and cradle it in my arms until it's heart stops beating. I feel that if I make a recommendation to end a dog's life, then I have to be willing to be there until the end.


I like dogs a heck of a lot more than I like most people. Dogs are my life. I will not temper my opinion to make people happy at the expense of the dog.


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