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#733741 - 04/20/12 11:01 PM Re: Status of Forever Brilliant - coated or not? [Re: lessw]
morning glory Offline
Connoisseur

Registered: 05/06/11
Posts: 2033
Call me a skeptic but I would want more than assumptions to back up the new stones. We still didn't get the whole story because C&C said NO FB engraved stones were coated and the lab said it was. Saying nothing is not enough. C&C said they would show lab reports on the new releases and I will be skeptical until they do so.

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#733780 - 04/21/12 12:55 AM Re: Status of Forever Brilliant - coated or not? [Re: morning glory]
Winterstone Offline
Smitten

Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 40
Loc: MA
I agree, Morning Glory. I just don't understand why the issue appears to have been dropped on here. Less was actively involved in the whole thing, so I just thought it would be nice to have some sort of follow-up...or at least a reply to let us know that there aren't any plans for a follow-up! I know they monitor this board, so I just find the seemingly deliberate silence odd.

On a different note, isn't it illegal for C&C to sell something as "not coated"--when in fact it is? Wouldn't that be as bad as selling an Asha as an actual diamond??

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#735968 - 04/26/12 06:39 PM Re: Status of Forever Brilliant - coated or not? [Re: lessw]
Rusalka Offline
Fiend

Registered: 04/11/12
Posts: 139
Loc: Canada
Hello, I am just wondering if there has been a resolution to this yet.

I've been lurking the site for ages trying to figure out if I want to go with enhanced or unenhanced moissanite. So I am really interested to know about the other "improved" stone vs Amora. I've got a response in the live chat today that Amora is better than C&C FB because it is whiter. Something is so appealing about the actual grown moissanite before it is changed in any way, it could be a moot point for me. Still would love to know my options smile ty

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#735994 - 04/26/12 07:18 PM Re: Status of Forever Brilliant - coated or not? [Re: lessw]
jcent Offline
BTD Crown Jewel

Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 12164
Loc: Canada
According to C&C FB is going to be available May 1st... I do not know what FB they are selling now and am quite confused, but I think we are all still waiting on the "real" FB stones.
_________________________
Joseph Schubach Jewelers

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#736129 - 04/27/12 12:20 AM Re: Status of Forever Brilliant - coated or not? [Re: lessw]
lessw Offline

The Florentine Diamond

Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 5355
Hi all,
So, after a lot of work and testing of a number of 'soft launch' Forever Brilliants, here are the final results:

1 - Forever Brilliants sold after the soft launch of approx 3/17/12 are no longer coated. They have moved to a new process as they claimed. We tested under EDX/TEM as a final check.

2 - We have a very good idea of the new process (but will not disclose as professional courtesy since they are marking it as proprietary). It is different than the Amora ehancemement.

3 - In testing and review, the Amora enhanced tested 1-2 color grades better than equivalent same cut/ same carat Forever Brilliants.

4 - The Forever Brilliants typically have surface damage issues from their different process - photos below. Basically, damaged surface on the bottom in terms of irregular 'ostrich skin' topology, and the top half (crown) can have burn marks. Photos of all these issues below.

5 - We remain confident the Amora enhanced are thus whiter and better even with the 'new' Forever Brilliant process, and of course all Amora enhanced 6mm+ come with independent color grading to prove the color grade.

6 - All that said, Amora enhanced will be eventually phased out in the future. We will be moving into Amora GEM in the future, and similarly, CTHR has announced now that they are moving towards having all Moissanite run through the Forever Brilliant process.

Thus, there won't be anything to treat in terms of raw stones in the future regardless if all raw moissanite is phased out.


Anyway, we consider the coating issue resolved at this point.


Thus, lets quickly discuss the new FB surface issues and color grading results:

1 - The bottom half (pavillion) of Forever Brilliants have surface damage (hilly surface and 'ostrich skin' effect) as you can see below in these photos.

Look through the stone at the bottom half and see the whitish and irregular surface on the bottom:


Here are two more views with tinted lighting to highlight the surface defects:


And this is looking top down through the table with darker tinting:


The damage 'level' varies stone to stone.


Top side (crown) - some FB's had burn marks on the crown - always on the top only:



More:





Color grading:
We're waiting on certs for some of the FB's but here are the verbal results compared to Amora enhanced:

1ct Round:
Amora enhanced = H
Forever Brilliant = I

2ct Round:
Amora enhanced = H
Forever Brilliant = J/K (not finalized, assume J)

More are on their way to the grading lab, but the above appear to be representative.

I'll post the final grading reports once we have them, but the main news now is that FB's are not coated now, and that issue has been resolved.

The Forever Brilliant process does apparently create unique surface issues/damage, and color grade is not as high as Amora enhanced. The Forever Brilliant color is however an improvement over unenhanced, albeit with surface issues.

Certs coming, and then we're moving on to focus back on our own products since we're not getting paid to be CTHR's quality inspectors smile

Best regards
Less

_________________________
Recipient: GIA Diamonds Certificate

President,
http://BetterThanDiamond.com

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#736139 - 04/27/12 12:36 AM Re: Status of Forever Brilliant - coated or not? [Re: Winterstone]
lessw Offline

The Florentine Diamond

Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 5355
Originally Posted By: Winterstone
I agree, Morning Glory. I just don't understand why the issue appears to have been dropped on here. Less was actively involved in the whole thing, so I just thought it would be nice to have some sort of follow-up...or at least a reply to let us know that there aren't any plans for a follow-up!


One of my favorite sayings is "Get your facts straight" and thus I won't post until I know all the facts.

In this case we had to acquire a number of stones and review and then wait for two different labs to test and review....then we are in a position to update everyone, and that all takes time (and money).

Anyway, I promised follow up and I keep my promises - results above, and will post the grading reports when we get them back from NAGL.

Best regards
Less
_________________________
Recipient: GIA Diamonds Certificate

President,
http://BetterThanDiamond.com

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#736159 - 04/27/12 01:00 AM Re: Status of Forever Brilliant - coated or not? [Re: lessw]
Hillaroo Offline
Fiend

Registered: 08/09/10
Posts: 100
This is all very handy information. Thank you, Less. I was wondering, though...I thought the Amora enhanced was still a J according to the NAGL certs? I'm confused. Is it only for some shapes?

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#736162 - 04/27/12 01:05 AM Re: Status of Forever Brilliant - coated or not? [Re: lessw]
morning glory Offline
Connoisseur

Registered: 05/06/11
Posts: 2033
Thanks for the results Less. I'm not sure what to say at this point. I mean, I'm glad it's not a coating but...what the heck are they doing to those poor moissy's!! The dimple defect looks very much like the coating shown from the first FB's tested.

At what magnification are the defects visible?
Could the stone not be polished after treatment to remove the defects caused by the enhancement process? It seems that the surface defects would affect the overall appearance or does it not matter that much?


As for your second post I just had to laugh. It reminded me of DH...he won't answer until he has something to say and sometimes that means awkward silence while he is thinking or calculating or deliberating a response or has to gather information before answering. From my end, I have no idea if he didn't hear me, wasn't listening, doesn't have anything to say or what! I hate that, lol. I tell him he has to say SOMETHING, even if to tell me he will get back to me later. wink

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#736163 - 04/27/12 01:05 AM Re: Status of Forever Brilliant - coated or not? [Re: Hillaroo]
lessw Offline

The Florentine Diamond

Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 5355
Originally Posted By: Hillaroo
This is all very handy information. Thank you, Less. I was wondering, though...I thought the Amora enhanced was still a J according to the NAGL certs? I'm confused. Is it only for some shapes?


Hi Hillaroo,
The answer is that color grade for Amora enhanced varies based on size and shape.

For rounds, Amora enhanced are H color from 6mm - 8mm (.75ct - 2ct).

Example cert:


After that, it gets into I color from 8.5mm - 10mm.

Most cushion cuts are J color for example in the Amora enhanced. There is no Forever Brilliant yet in Cushion, so nothing to compare to. Regular moissanite in cushion for 7mm+ is approx M/N color.

All the color grades are posted on the product pages though, so just check the relevant cut and size and you'll know. And as noted, they all come with independent color grading (Amora Enhanced Moissanite) for 6mm and larger.

Hope that helps clarify,
Less




Edited by lessw (04/27/12 01:20 AM)
Edit Reason: added sample cert
_________________________
Recipient: GIA Diamonds Certificate

President,
http://BetterThanDiamond.com

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#736167 - 04/27/12 01:11 AM Re: Status of Forever Brilliant - coated or not? [Re: lessw]
borismom Offline
The Millenium Star

Registered: 09/19/04
Posts: 7497
Loc: South of the border
Wow, the surface of those poor stones is really pitted!

I hate the idea that they will be doing away with all the untreated moissys. I actually like them.
_________________________
www.veronicarussekjoyas.com
One of a kind jewelry with gemstones and pearls

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